Basic rules for riding in a group

[LILJAX]

Basic rules for riding in a group
By no means will this be an exhaustive list, so feel free to add anything that might have been missed. These seem like common sense, but everyone has been a rookie and someone has to tell you.

1. When you change lanes, go to the far side of the lane so someone else can also change lanes. Example: If you are on the left side of the right lane, when you move to the left lane, go all the way over to the left side of the lane.

2. When coming to a turn on a regular road, (for a twistie road see rule 5) drop into a single file line. You should communicate either before the ride or during the ride with the bike beside you about who is going to go first and who will drop in behind.

3. Learn the hand signals. The basic ones that we use are:
A. Hand tapping top of helmet: There's a cop.
B. Pointing frantically to the ground with hand or foot: There's something in the road on that side.
C. Left arm extended and bent 90 degrees with closed fist: We are about to make a final turn in and stop
D. Left Arm extended and bent 90 degrees with open hand: Right turn.
E. Left arm straight out: Left turn
F. Left arm slightly extended and dropped down by side with open hand: slow down or possible stop.
G. Someone flashing all five fingers of one hand at you: you forgot to turn off your blinker.
H. One leg extended to side of bike: That person is about to change lanes in that direction. (I personally prefer and use blinkers, but you need to know this one.)
I. Pointing to the gas tank: I need gas.

4. It is not uncool to use your blinkers to change lanes.

5. When you're on a twistie rode with a group, ride in a single file line and DO NOT ride above you're skill level! I have ridden with many different groups and they always wait at the end of the road for everyone and usually do a head count to make sure no one went down. If the group you're riding with leaves you, then you need to find a different group to ride with, not try to ride faster than your skill level as that will only end in disaster.

6. Don't go flying by someone at high speed in the same lane as they are in unless you know them and they have told you that it is ok. Please go by in a different lane when the road is clearly visible for a distance ahead to do so. DO NOT PASS IN CORNERS unless all in the group have an understanding that this is acceptable.

7. If you want to stunt, go out front or in the back and every one try to pick one or two lanes to stunt in. Most experienced stunters do this, this is for the inexperienced. It is much better to get in front before you do a wheelie, etc. Riding up through a pack on your rear wheel is not the safest thing in the world.

8. When you first ride with a large group or an unfamiliar group, I suggest you stay in back and on whatever side that has an escape route. You need to be thinking what will I do if someone in front of me goes down. It does happen!

9. When the group puts the hammer down and it comes time for you to decelerate, if you don't brake and just let off the throttle, make sure that you tap your brake a couple of times so that the bikes behind you will know your slowing down.

Please feel free to add anything else you can think of.

[OnTheGo]

We need to reiterate... DO NOT RIDE ABOVE YOUR SKILL LEVEL!!! Riding at the back of the group does not make you less of a rider...

[ersigh]

I wrote up a "how to ride in a group" thing a few years ago, which I need to find. The group I've been riding with recently is choatic and frustrates the hell out of me. I think it's important to express what people do but also to outline what people should do. Such as using ones foot to change lanes. What the hell is that? Lazy bastards. I can't *stand* that. I use my blinkers and hands to communicate my intentions for other riders and cars. I grew up on bikes and people only use their feet to communicate there is something in the road (which means they don't use their hands to point out stuff in the road either), this keeps the language clear and concise. Because I was unfamiliar with the foot usage as a lane change or turn signal, I had a few moments of missing that someone was turning because I had scanned ahead briefly to look for debri and was none too happy to have to turn around and catch up with them (they wait last minute to signal as well which is a bad habit).

It is very important to ride your own ride. Just because people have the same bike as you and are going a certain speed doesn't mean you should. Starting slow and learning how to ride smooth to make you a good rider and if you so choose it, it will make you a fast rider as well. Most girls seem to 'get it'. Guys seem to struggle with this a tad more.

[Racergirl]

This is really the only thing I hate about group riding, and its really only when ur in a "bad" group...

but its when the leader is splitting and changing lanes, weaving all over the place, with 6-10 riders in tow.

If u have a group that big, slow it down, wait in traffic. If you are with n00bs, wait in traffic.

If you are out with your regular buddies, its only a few of you (1-4 lets say) and you are used to "cutting it up" then go for it.

[ersigh]

This is really the only thing I hate about group riding, and its really only when ur in a "bad" group...

but its when the leader is splitting and changing lanes, weaving all over the place, with 6-10 riders in tow.

If u have a group that big, slow it down, wait in traffic. If you are with n00bs, wait in traffic.

If you are out with your regular buddies, its only a few of you (1-4 lets say) and you are used to "cutting it up" then go for it.

Agreed. Whenever I lead I am very communicative. I ask people in advance if they even lane split, not everyone does. I designate someone to stick with the newbie and tell the newbie to follow that person. I expect people to stay where they belong and not push to the front at stop signs only to get in other people's ways, etc.

I have a friend who is not a great rider and I have decided not to ride with him anymore. He sits in blind spots, he does very none intuitive things, like if you are leading and he's behind you, he'll sit in a spot where if you try to turn or change your spot in the lane, you will hit him and because he's sitting here he is, he can not see blinkers. It makes me *so* angry being around bad riders. I went out with a group I didn't even know and there was this one guy, who they said was "new", who was just awful, he pushed to the front at stop signs and I hated being behind him. We got up to The Wall and he lit up a joint. At that point my anger turned to fury and I said, "He goes or I go". So they sent him home. What a twat. :mad

[Corny]

Whenever I lead there is either a place chase involved or someone goes down. That's why I hate leading :lol

[ersigh]

Whenever I lead there is either a place chase involved or someone goes down. That's why I hate leading :lol

hehe, yeah, it always sucks when you see proof you're not good at something. ;)

[KCDakar]

OK so I thought I would go back and try to start up some old threads and try to get some dialog going again...:thumbup:

I have been riding for many years and have ridden about everything that has two wheels. And I also drag raced and raced SCCA as a snot nosed kid. I learned very young that riding was a very personal thing for me. That said I also learned that I needed to ride alone if I wanted to stay alive. Remember that I was riding HD way back when you had to be a bad ass to ride. I was Not a bad ass and found myself riding alone to stay away from the gang mentality. For me, it worked.
Over the years riding started to become cool. More and more people in the main stream started to ride. Each time I would try to hook up with others I would always find that they didn't like my ridged way of riding safe. You see I am a person who feels that my personal safety is worth more than the group mentality of being cool,showing off,drunk,dumbtard. etc... you get the pic I think.

And years later when the PACE started to become more known. http://www.ridehsta.com/html/safety.htm (also check out Pace yourself) I was a supporter of this because I have seen the worst of the worst riders hurt or maim themselves or others and it was a way to show/tell others that there was a better way to ride and still have fun. I also started to take the MSF courses way back when and still take the ARC to this day every 3 to 5 years. They also have a Group riding course and is taken with your own bike.

If you follow your PACE. Be it in a group or by your self you will stay safer.
You still have dangers to pay attention to. Cages, wildlife, mechanical failures, etc... But if you are riding YOUR ride you will be able to be better able to hopefully avoid them.

Lady's on motorcycles are the FASTEST growing female sport in the United States! We also have the least amount of accidents in any classification. My passion is riding. And as such I wish to help keep it that way...

I have ridden in groups from two to 460+ bikes. I always ride my ride. Do you?:thumbup:

[ersigh]

I do. I grew up on bikes. My parents rode and were part of local groups. They were very focused on safety and this passed on to me quite well.

When people ride in ways that are unsafe I tend to get upset or stressed... to the point I'll leave the situation. I'm not shy to tell people that I have a problem with what their doing. I always approach it nicely... see if maybe they just didn't know any better. But often the male ego blocks my wisdom reaching their brains.

I've become less and less friendly as a rider because I've gotten tired of the newbs who think they know it all... or the guys who just can't accept I might have my head screwed on right... maybe more right than them.

I had a 3 mo. newb try to justify drinking and riding to me today. *shakes head* He has a harley. I told him the death stats are higher for cruisers than sportbikes right now... largely due to the growing number of first time or long time returnees wanting to get that HD they used to daydream about. Alcohol goes hand in hand with the HD clique. He didn't want to accept what I was saying and when I mentioned alcohol he said "We just have more social things going on"... !! I laughed at him and then proceeded to ignore him by seeming like I needed to talk to the security guard at work and once enough ignoring time had gone by... I walked away. I grew up around HA types... not all of them drink. The people who rode in the group my parents rode in did not drink when riding... EVER.

I'd rather ride alone than ride with people who make me worry. I made the mistake of dating a newbie once. He crashed 8 times in less than 2 years. Totalled 3 bikes (the overall damage to the 3 bikes was probably close to a total each crash). It really sucked. He had no common sense and he thought just because he could push his easy as all hell to ride r6 through corners faster than I was willing (yet quite capable) to go... that he was a BETTER rider than me.

Blech.

[Lucky_Devil]

The MSF website has really good information on group riding:

http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/Group_Ride.pdf

Just curious what everyones policy is on crappy riders... as in, do you confront them?... do I say something to the asshat in question, or just let them continue to ride like a dillhole and put themselves and everyone else in jeopardy?

I haven't really found many riders to be very accepting of constructive criticism, no matter how nicely it's put, and I've pretty much come to the conclusion that it's because it's coming from a woman. But sometimes I feel obligated to at least say SOMETHING. What if they truly don't know that they're being a danger to themselves and those around them... and we don't really appreciate it.

Has anyone else noticed that when riding in a group, some people will gather and complain about a certain rider, but no one is usually willing to go say something to them about it... I know that no one wants to come off as "holier than thou" or judgmental, but I also think it's a disservice to the offending rider to not try and educate them about their poor riding habits that are making everyone vulnerable....

I dunno... I guess I'm rambling at this point.

I'm tired.:boring:

[Inky]

Riding in a group is easy................tell them to piss off and you will see them there. Have your own map and be responsible for yourself. Works for me.:confused: :lol

[ersigh]

The MSF website has really good information on group riding:

http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/Group_Ride.pdf

Just curious what everyones policy is on crappy riders... as in, do you confront them?... do I say something to the asshat in question, or just let them continue to ride like a dillhole and put themselves and everyone else in jeopardy?

I haven't really found many riders to be very accepting of constructive criticism, no matter how nicely it's put, and I've pretty much come to the conclusion that it's because it's coming from a woman. But sometimes I feel obligated to at least say SOMETHING. What if they truly don't know that they're being a danger to themselves and those around them... and we don't really appreciate it.

Has anyone else noticed that when riding in a group, some people will gather and complain about a certain rider, but no one is usually willing to go say something to them about it... I know that no one wants to come off as "holier than thou" or judgmental, but I also think it's a disservice to the offending rider to not try and educate them about their poor riding habits that are making everyone vulnerable....

I dunno... I guess I'm rambling at this point.

I'm tired.:boring:

I hate that group shit talking thing. It irritates me so much. I've seen some really terrible riders not be confronted but an entire group will complain about them when said terrible rider goes to the bathroom.

I'd rather piss someone off by trying to bring up the things that are unsafe then keep it to myself. I figure the information goes in there even if all I get is a nasty attitude in response. Besides, when they crash later in the day... I can raise my eyebrow at them and they're always a tad more humiliated and humble than they would have been if I hadn't said anything.

I've been in situations where I've basically told the group that the bad rider needs to go. That they need to go home and park the bike or I will leave the ride. In one situation I was riding with this group for the first time. It was a huge demand to make but they listened and sent the guy packing. He was a terrible rider... and he had issues with a girl being in front of him... so everytime we got to a stop sign he'd shoot past me and get in front. Then I'd have to try and pass him while he stumbled through corners, often going over the double yellow. We got up to The Wall (a berkeley biker hangout-ish type place) and he pulls out a joint. I totally lost it. I was so mad. His riding was so terrible. He was so rude AND the idiot was going to get high and presume he had some business riding with other people.

My parents smoked pot perpetually when I was younger and it was normally to take a break on a ride and for me to run around while they smoked. It seemed fine to me but it was sort of their normal state. As an adult now, I don't accept this sort of behavior at all. Drink a beer and attempt to get on your bike... expect to be given some shit. I don't care if you did get home safe after all is said and done ... it's still irresponsible and is exactly why motorcycles seem as unsafe on paper as they do. :mad

I was on a group ride once (*cough* *mumbles* BARF ride) and a girl blew a corner and went over the double yellow. There's something about girls on 250s. They're often excessively aggressive like they're trying to make up for something. It's a stereotype of behavior but I actually won't ride with girls who are new riders and are on 250s because I've seen this weird ego thing in action so many times. At one of the stops she said she was embaressed and someone ni the group says to her "Oh, it's ok.. it happens to everyone" :confused:

At that time I had not quite reached the point of being able to walk up to strangers to talk to them about their riding... but I overheard this... and had been watching her ride. I ended up wishing I had said something because a little bit later in the day she ended up clipping a car. She was ok and the bike was ok but she blamed the car (there's no way it was the car's fault) and she didn't learn a damn thing. I did pipe up on the thread about it and people told me I was mean... a few people who had been on the ride ended up agreeing with me though. I made another handful of enemies on BARF (no loss) but I also learned that it's worth being the bad guy in these sort of situations.

[Inky]

Like I said, piss on them if they can't take a joke. I don't like riding in groups. I don't do it for a lot of the reasons that ersigh has said. It's just too much work to try and make everybody happy. If I'm on my bike, I'm trying to make myself happy. The rest of you (collectively and generally, I'm pointing a very broad finger) can do the same for yourselves. Most of the time I want to try and teach somebody to do something better, or to be more responsible and I get crapped on for it. F%#k it. They will figure it out on their own.

I like this thread.............good stuff.

[ersigh]

Like I said, piss on them if they can't take a joke. I don't like riding in groups. I don't do it for a lot of the reasons that ersigh has said. It's just too much work to try and make everybody happy. If I'm on my bike, I'm trying to make myself happy. The rest of you (collectively and generally, I'm pointing a very broad finger) can do the same for yourselves. Most of the time I want to try and teach somebody to do something better, or to be more responsible and I get crapped on for it. F%#k it. They will figure it out on their own.

I like this thread.............good stuff.

Pretty much. I ride my own ride and I DEMAND that others do the same. I'll occassionally take newbs under my wing but that's a different dynamic altogether and I prefer if it's just me and the newb... no one else.

I'd rather be a hard ass and set healthy boundaries (which can be difficult for most people in any aspect of their lives)... then have my day ruined by some dumbass.

[KCDakar]

I mentor a 16 year old. He is about the most level headed kid I know.
That said I have taken him on long rides on very technical roads in Arkansas. Both alone and with a Small group. (5-6) I have seen him ride past his limit a time or two but then see him back off and get right back in the PACE. It is wonderful to see him do this.
He can recap the days ride and he knows what he has done that could have been an ass bite. And he will work through what he needs to do to stay up on two wheels in a way that makes HIS ride the best it can be.
One time he was standing behind me and some older men came over and started to talk shop and telling him how to ride his R1150S. After they went on there way he came over and was telling me the things that he thought was not in his line of thinking and I asked him why he thought that. He said that I had never led him astray and that he wanted to learn the way I was teaching him before he started to put his or someone else's styles in the mix.
The kid is 16! I just wish there were a lot more out there like him!
This spring he is taking his first track school and I plan to be there to watch.
I have told him that for payment he has to in his time mentor somebody else so that the things he has learned in the years he has ridden gets past on.

We all have things we can pass on. It's just taking that first step that is sometimes hard...
I agree with ersigh, I think it is better to speak up than to stay quite!:thumbup:

[Lucky_Devil]

I understand that anyone has the option to just bugger off on their own at any time on any group ride. I've been on some really fun group rides/rallys/runs, etc... but sometimes there can be one bad apple...

I think you can still enjoy a group ride despite the bad apples. They only ruin your ride if you let them. Talk to them, if they don't improve or have a bad attitude then ask to be placed in a different part of the pack so that you're away from them, and let it go... simple as that. If other people feel that the rider is as bad as you do, then other people will follow suit and pretty soon the offending rider will be riding alone, and perhaps the message will sink in.

I also think the failure or success of a group ride can depend a lot on how well it's organized, and how responsive the organizers/leaders are to your concerns, etc.

Just my two cents.

[Luna C]

I'm curious what are the positives of riding in a group? I've only ridden with a group of more than 3 once, and decided I'm not that keen on it. I realize I prefer riding alone (except with my husband & a couple close friends), but I'm sure there are some good reasons to ride as a group. Comments?

Holly

[ersigh]

I'm curious what are the positives of riding in a group? I've only ridden with a group of more than 3 once, and decided I'm not that keen on it. I realize I prefer riding alone (except with my husband & a couple close friends), but I'm sure there are some good reasons to ride as a group. Comments?

Holly

I feel safer in a group when on the freeway. I feel safer actually if there's 2 bikes... but the more bikes, the more visable we are.

I won't ride alone in the twisties. I prefer to ride with no more than 2-3 other people.

This seems like an ideal group size. If the mix of people is right, a group environment can be educational, supportive and fun for everyone involved.

Some people like riding in bigger groups. I could see why it might be more fun with cruisers or sport touring riders when they've got some event going on but the sportbike environment doesn't seem to cater as well to larger groups. I'm sure there are exceptions but my own approach to riding simply doesn't mesh. I'm not patient enough and I worry too much.

[Luna C]

I'm not patient enough and I worry too much.

That's me to a "T". I'm always worrying about the other people and don't feel I can concentrate on my ride as much. In a bigger group I always feel either too slow, too fast, too cautious, or not cautious enough. Just so sweet to only have the wild outdoors & each turn to watch, smell, feel, & enjoy. 2-3 really does feel like plenty when I want company.

[Lucky_Devil]

hmmmm....

perhaps I don't worry enough whilst riding in groups :confused:

I'm just too busy imitating this smilie: :riding:

Riding in large groups CAN be fun and educational... I swear :thumbup:

ersigh did bring up a good point about the sportbike environment or "mentality" not meshing well with large group rides. The best groups rides I've been on have been a mix of many different bike styles, from Harley's to BMW's to Aprilia's, etc, with sportbikes being in the minority... so maybe that has had something to do with it. That and the fact that there were mostly "mature" riders participating.

[Luna C]

Riding in large groups CAN be fun and educational... I swear :thumbup:

Well, I can imagine riding with a large group of women! That would be SWEET. Like the Suzuki commercial but with "real" women :happy.

[ersigh]

Well, I can imagine riding with a large group of women! That would be SWEET. Like the Suzuki commercial but with "real" women :happy.

I dunno... not to girl bash or nothing (considering I am one) but some of the scariest riders I've experienced have been females. The socializing during breaks is generally better with more girls but the riding environment is such that I generally keep to the front and keep a nice gap. All girl trackdays are even worse. I expect within the next 5 years that's going to change... as the motorcycling world begins to take women more seriously and in turn they begin to take themselves more seriously.

What you said in your earlier response about being distracted or worried when riding with others. That's super common and I think it's in the top 5 most important things to work on. The sooner you can focus on riding your own ride... the sooner you can really get to learning the important stuff, relaxing, smoothing out and having even more fun. :)