1st bike night & fast roads - advice on cramps (hand/back)

[kamilshka]

First, to share a little excitement! :yahoo: I am still buzzing from yesterday evening, when me and my (also an L plate learner) friend travelled from Exmouth to attend the weekly Paignton Bike Night (website for this bike night is here: http://www.bmad.co.uk/bikenights.html ).
It's a 64 mile round trip (102km) and took us 1 hour 30 mins to get there and about the same to get back.

I've not travelled roads that fast before, they are National Speed Limit so cars go as fast as 70mph. Our little 125cc bikes can get up to about 60mph and maintain it, so we stayed in the slow lane and the ride was pretty fine (altho a little stressful, as my friend's bike can apparently go a bit faster than mine and occasionally i was worried she'd leave me behind and i'd not know how to navigate to Paignton on my own! I need to get a GPS to avoid worries like that.)

It was quite windy, and we went over a bridge and had to lean a bit when the wind hit (not used to those speeds anyway, the wind just never stopped, wow!)

Aaaaanyway - my driving posture is very slouched and by the time we got home my back was ready to cramp at any second, and is still playing up today. I know I basically need to sit with a very straight back to avoid this, but was wondering if anyone had tips for encouraging a better posture or had struggled with a similar thing? I find it incredibly tiring sitting straight, and inevitably forget and slouch again.

I also found my right hand cramping this morning (not yesterday), due i think to the excessive twisting on the throttle as it was turned all the way round for most of the trip. I've read somewhere about cramp-savers... can anybody explain those and advice if they are a good idea or not?

I am SO looking forward to a bigger bike that can more comfortably maintain the speeds i need on roads like that!

[ImaSoftT]

:yahoo:So glad you and your friend enjoyed an evening with fellow riders. Your little 125cc really had a work out at those speeds, and apparently so did you. Sorry I can't offer any tips on your posture other than just being conscious of it and correcting the slouch often.

I have a Crampbuster but only use it when the road is very straight and open. However when you know you are going to be reaching top speed you might start your grip on the throttle by over reaching the bar. In other words grab the throttle farther around toward the front of the bike, then as you reach your speed your wrist will be closer to a comfortable position instead of bent down so far. I hope that makes sense.

Congrats again on your nice little ride, can't wait to hear about the next one.

[Cyclone67]

Can you adjust your handlebars at all so you are more upright?

[ridingAK]

Congratulations on going to bike night! I'm impressed with their website, and with the variety of bikes that attend. It looks really fun!

To ease your back, try to think about changing position often. Sit very straight, then slouch, then roll your shoulders, then... The big thing is to stay loose, so every so often go through a mental check to see if any of your muscles are tight, and make a purposeful effort to relax them.

I don't like cramp busters, and this is why. The cramping you feel in your hand is as a result of using muscles that you don't normally use. When we use new muscles, or ask more out of our muscles, they hurt. It doesn't matter whether it is the muscles in your hands or your legs or your back. If you use a cramp buster to avoid that issue, your hands will never gain the strength to handle the throttle for extended periods. If that is okay with you, then by all means use them as IST says when you are on long straight stretches of road to give your hands a rest. On the other hand, if you want to train your body to handle long riding days when you may be riding on roads unsuitable for a cramp buster, then push through the ache.

[Follow]

On my ST I have a slight slough position, I ride long distance on this bike so as rAK and IST say I completly agree. As for my hands what I do from time to time is I squeeze the tank with my knees, first this helps relieve pressure off of my hands (you tend to lean on them after a bit and forget) and it actually helps with the lower muscles of my back and stomach. I also move my legs around from front pegs to back pegs this stretches me out a bit in the legs and lower back again. Like IST I use a cramp buster from time to time as well but not on a continuous bases, for my reason to use this is the cramp in the palm of my hand and forearm I have had a couple of surgeries on both hands and this helps me to rest them when I need to on the long hauls.
I hope this helps, enjoy your rides.:):

[kamilshka]

In other words grab the throttle farther around toward the front of the bike, then as you reach your speed your wrist will be closer to a comfortable position instead of bent down so far. I hope that makes sense.

Ah yes, i get you - i was ocassionally doing this purely because my wrist wouldn't go any lower, but doing it more often and a bit more consciously is a really good idea. I will be more prepared next time i think!

And thanks, looking forward to doing one with more relaxed timing so i can take photo/video and share! :D

Can you adjust your handlebars at all so you are more upright?

Good idea, but i think sadly i am as upright as i can get in terms of the handlebars - it's a very upright sitting position on my bike. However, i'll be bearing it mind when i'm trying positions for me next bike, as hopefully a slightly altered position might make a difference. Thanks!

On the other hand, if you want to train your body to handle long riding days when you may be riding on roads unsuitable for a cramp buster, then push through the ache.

Good point - i certainly do want to be able to do without stuff like that if possible. I love muscle-ache (i work out and really enjoy that feeling of not being able to climb stairs the next day!) but cramp definitely is no fun, v painful. You are getting me to think about it more as a workout actually, which is great - i can aim to build up trips and stretch before-hand maybe? I've seen folks discuss that on this forum. Stretching before and after sounds a great idea. Need to find some hand stretches now! :lol:

Will work on shifting a little while riding and keeping my back loose and flexible, good advice, i tense a lot and i need to work on this.

And thanks, it's really a fun bike night, lots to see and a beautiful seafront!

Thanks guys, all great ideas and really getting me thinking.:):

[kamilshka]

As for my hands what I do from time to time is I squeeze the tank with my knees, first this helps relieve pressure off of my hands (you tend to lean on them after a bit and forget) and it actually helps with the lower muscles of my back and stomach. I also move my legs around from front pegs to back pegs this stretches me out a bit in the legs and lower back again.

Oh interesting, thanks, i will try this! I hadn't thought of that, and i can imagine it helping. I guess trying different things like this as you ride will help, because rather than me putting stress on one part of my body the whole time i am spreading around the stress and not exhausting any one part.

I like the idea of front pegs, i'm hoping to get some on a cruiser when i get my bigger bike, that will be nice for big-road riding i think. Thanks! :D:

[Luna Tique]

:congrats: on attending a bike night :pompom:

More (S)miles :D: will help strenghten those muscles.:riding:

[kamilshka]

Hehe, thanks Luna, lots more miles for me to come, and hopefully many more smiles! :D:

[bekefi1]

Pheral, I have the complete opposite problem - I sit ram rod straight due to years of ballet training! :lol: It causes the same problem of back cramps but in the upper back. Any prolonged time in any position will cause discomfort. Just like the others have said, switch your position around often and pay attention to what muscles are getting sore. I do small isolation exercises as I ride to help alleviate discomfort - shoulder rolls, hyper-extensions and contractions of the lower back (kind of rolling forward and back on your sit bones), tightening and loosening of my hands on the grips, etc. Plus, just lots of miles to build all of your muscles up. It really can be thought of as a workout.

[Follow]

:D: oh dont forget the butt clench and keigles:D: the butt clench will help you not get hemorroids and actually help the muscles in many ways and the keigles well the pelvic area does need exercise too but when you stop to go potty and you do the dance to get the gear off will be easier.:lol: because it really is hard to get all the gear off when you are crossing your legs trying to gain control....how do I know this, those darn Iron Butt rides, riding from tank to tank I have to have all my muscles working.

[Cyclone67]

I have found that working on core body fitness helps alot. Get those abs, gluts, and back muscles in shape.

[kari-star]

I have found that working on core body fitness helps alot. Get those abs, gluts, and back muscles in shape.

I totally agree! I started on an SV650 and with very weak core muscles - but by the end of the summer the exercise class I'd been working at was really showing it's purpose and I was much stronger and able to support myself in any position. look up a core muscle (or "ab ripper") kind of program. do lots of planks and crunches. it's so important!

[kamilshka]

bekefi1 and Follow - I am going to look like the weirdest rider ever, shifting around, dancing in my seat, clenching my butt!! :rofl:

Seriously though, all excellent ideas and i'm going to read this thread over again before my next trip and work them in to my journey.

Cyclone67 and kari-star - you're definitely on to something, and it makes me want to slap my forehead at my ability to forget stuff i already know. I used to lift weights regularly and do loads of planks and core-muscle building as part of my workouts, and i remember my back cramps getting way better. I haven't done any of that for about a year, so of course my back will be worse! Doh! Thanks, memory-banks jolted, i think i will dig out my old exercise regimes and get started soon.

:thankyou:

[ImaSoftT]

On the count of three, 1 and 2 and http://freeemoticonsandsmileys.com/3D%20Smileys/3D%20Sport%20Smileys/in%20fitness%20room.gifthen how about some http://www.menoutdoors.com/forums/images/smilies/NewSmilie/7_5_138.gif. You'll be in shape in no time pheral.

[bekefi1]

bekefi1 and Follow - I am going to look like the weirdest rider ever, shifting around, dancing in my seat, clenching my butt!! :rofl:



It'll be easy to spot a TWF even if they don't have the stickers. They'll be the ones that can't sit still in their seats! :roflmao:

[ridingAK]

It'll be easy to spot a TWF even if they don't have the stickers. They'll be the ones that can't sit still in their seats! :roflmao:

That may be true, but we can ride a lot of miles! :D:

[phoenix63]

Congrats on the ride, Pheral! And it's such a wonderful thing that your bike night outing also raises money for charity. One of the revelations of becoming acquainted with experienced riders, is the amount of charity fundraising that occurs in riding clubs. So fantastic!

I'm wondering if perhaps a seat pad on your saddle would help with the back cramps. I know posture has a lot to do with it, but maybe a gel seat, or a sheepskin pad might provide some cushioning for you. Stretching, as has been mentioned, might also help.

And, as you relax on the bike a bit more, perhaps that will help loosen up your back muscles, too.

[kamilshka]

That may be true, but we can ride a lot of miles! :D:

Hehe, true, fairly weird lookin' but safe and successful. I guess i can cope with that combination! :D:

Congrats on the ride, Pheral! And it's such a wonderful thing that your bike night outing also raises money for charity.

Thanks! And yes it is kinda awesome, adds a feel-good factor to the enjoyment of the night. Thanks for the ideas too, a seat pad is a great idea eventually as even after just those 3 hours on the bike both me and my friend has slightly sore butts, so i think any longer and it's going to become an issue! Not tensing is also very important i think, yes, something i am really going to have to concentrate on, especially during my upcoming full-license training. Nearly a full day on the bike is going to bring all this out and either make me or break me i think!! :eek:

[VStar]

Good on you and that little 125cc motor, I can hear you both hauling butt down the road going 'I think I can, I think I can'. That was a big hurrah for both of you.

[kamilshka]

I missed this reply from you Vstar! And you're absolutely right, lol, that's exactly what both me and the bike were chanting all the way there! :P

I wanted to update this thread, for anyone reading it in the future, as i have discovered the answer to my back-cramp.

I did my full-licence training recently (five days training, two tests, and passed everything and got my full license last week, whee!) and was learning on a Suzuki GS500. It has a slightly more leant-forward position than my upright-position bike, and the tank allows me to grip with my knees and relax my back and shoulders completely. As a result, no back-cramps, despite 7-hours a day on the bike!

My back only cramped while driving home on my little 125cc at the end of the day, lol.

So due to this, i am getting a GS500 as my next bike (weird getting a sports/tourer after lusting for a cruiser for so many years!), as the riding position is awesomely comfortable and i don't have to worry about my back seizing up anymore. I would never have realised this if i hadn't done all the training on it, so i'm really glad i did!

Just thought i'd share my findings in case anyone else is reading this in the future with the same problem. :D:

[ImaSoftT]

:congrats: getting your full license pherial, way to go. There will be no stopping you now. Thanks for the info on the zuki 500, I'm glad you found a bike that is really comfortable for you. Now we can all sit back and wait for all the ride reports to start flowing in from the UK, right?:):

[kamilshka]

Heeeee, thank you! I am very pleased and relieved and proud! And yes oh yes, ride-reports are now very much on the cards - a bigger bik means more comfort, longer trips, a GPS unit and time to experiment with videos and photos so yay! Lots of Devonshire road education coming up for you guys. :D:

[ImaSoftT]

That's just what we wanted to hear.:yahoo:

[Astir]

:iagree:

:smiley: Can't wait to see ride reports from your beautiful part of the world! :yahoo:

[phoenix63]

Well done, pheral :pompom: You should be very proud of yourself, that's fantastic! And, along with those ride reports... lot of pictures, please!

[VStar]

Attagirl Pheral on you golden ticket and you get to go bike shopping. Be sure to include some pictures of those 100 year old hedges and farmers for me.

[ridingAK]

I've got my student cap on and am ready to learn all about your roads! http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnajrWrRlXNgS8PbtrHMH3qz0QIj-_RRaQhJzPCVzJSupBUUq0qg

[Astir]

:rofl: rAK! Somebody is influencing your emoticon selections. :thumbup:

PS - me too! I want to hear all about those roads.

[Luna Tique]

:clapping: :congrats: :pompom:on getting your license. Hard work and commitment does pay off :thumbsup:

I will be joining the rest of our members waiting to see and hear all about your stomping grounds

[Mache62]

First....:congrats: on the full license! That sounds like a much more comprehensive course then we are required to take here in the states.

Second, thanks for bumping this! After a long ride yesterday I was saying to the S/O last night I think I need to do some core exercises for the same reasons; I had a backache and some lower back spasms for a bit.

The other thing I have noticed is my left wrist is really starting to hurt and I must be leaning on it without realizing it. I live in a more urban area and must shift quite a bit for the flow of traffic, so I don't know if this is causing it or not.

[zee]

:congrats:

I love my GS500 and find the seating position more comfortable (for me) than my husband's cruiser (Yamaha V-Star 650). When I'm on his bike, I always find myself leaning forward as if I were riding mine... probably looks funny. :):

Can't wait to see pictures of your new bike, and hear all about your road trips!

[bekefi1]

Congrats on the license and finding a bike that fits. Nothing but the open road ahead of you now. :):

[kamilshka]

Thank you so much everyone!! Your enthusiasm is absolutely infectious, by the end of reading all your congratulations i was all fired up all over again about passing, lol!:yahoo:

I can't wait to post photos of my new bike when i get it, and start to do some trip reports - photos photos photos! Your wish is my command. :D: Can't wait to start experimenting with how best to take photos, etc. Videos too.

Be sure to include some pictures of those 100 year old hedges and farmers for me.

Lol, the farmers are often about 100 years old too. :roflmao:Dartmoor is amazing, i suspect i might go there for my first show ride report, because you guys will think it's stunning. (well, and it is!)

rAK! Somebody is influencing your emoticon selections.

Haaa, it was rather a funny icon! :P

That sounds like a much more comprehensive course then we are required to take here in the states.
Second, thanks for bumping this! After a long ride yesterday I was saying to the S/O last night I think I need to do some core exercises for the same reasons; I had a backache and some lower back spasms for a bit.
The other thing I have noticed is my left wrist is really starting to hurt and I must be leaning on it without realizing it. I live in a more urban area and must shift quite a bit for the flow of traffic, so I don't know if this is causing it or not.

I think you're right about the course being more comprehensive. When we first want a bike we have to pass a day course to be allowed an L plate and to ride on the roads, then we have to do this course (to lose the L plate, get a bike bigger than 125cc, ride motorways and take a pillion). Cost me around, er, equivalent of $1300 and there's a car-park test and an on-road test. Both are freaking difficult, man. I'm so glad i've done it all though, after you're licensed it really gives you a feeling of accomplishment! :D:

Glad you find the thread advice helpful, i'll be doing a lot of it too on longer trips i think. I got a sore arm on my left side while riding, all this is very tricky to source! :P

I love my GS500 and find the seating position more comfortable (for me) than my husband's cruiser (Yamaha V-Star 650).

Oh yay! Glad to hear from another GS owner, they seem like great bikes. Do you have the faired or unfaired model?

[zee]

Oh yay! Glad to hear from another GS owner, they seem like great bikes. Do you have the faired or unfaired model?

Ah, I'm sorry, should have stated mine is a GS500F (full fairings). Silver and black and lots of fun!! :wootrock:

[kamilshka]

Cool! I am getting the F as well, i learnt on the E but didn't like the looks of it unfaired, so buying the faired version. Hoping to get a custom repaint too, as i know a local guy with skills who doesn't charge loads, as we only get the F in blue/white here and don't like blue! :P

[zee]

Trade ya! :lol: I have a blue helmet... the only blue gear I have. :rolleyes:

Don't forget to post up some pictures.... :D:

[Thir13en]

I was just about to ask these same questions!
The first day of my MSF class 2 weeks ago my back hurt SO bad! We went to see Prince in Luxembourg that evening (standing only) and ending up leaving right as the encore started cause my back was seizing up! I barely made the walk to the car and was in tears - and I have a pretty high pain tolerance. I sat the whole ride home with my knees to my chest. The next 2 days were a little better - just getting the muscles used to it - and it's been better since, but I've only gone 10 miles/ride. (Still waiting on my hard copy license so staying very local - don't need any trouble with the Polizei!)
I have gotten the hand cramps also with going faster speeds now than in the MSF but figuring those will ease as well. :)

On the "dancing in your seat" topic - I had ghf instructors laughing at me everytime we would "mount up" cause I had to do this shimmy/shift back and forth to get my legs settled and comfortable where I could reach the best! They looked at me funny, the just shook their heads and laughed! :D

[ridingAK]

On the "dancing in your seat" topic - I had ghf instructors laughing at me everytime we would "mount up" cause I had to do this shimmy/shift back and forth to get my legs settled and comfortable where I could reach the best! They looked at me funny, the just shook their heads and laughed! :D

Add a little standing butt wiggle to get your riding pants situated and you'll really start getting the looks (DAMHIK). :lol:

[Thir13en]

Omg don't mind my typos - I usually use my iPhone since our internet here is so slow! :/